Hey guys, I am so excited today for having Dr. Michael Postma, which I don't even know where to start introducing, right, as he's the president and co founder of gifted and thriving. He's the program director for the nonprofit saying he's wrote a number of article and books. He holds a Master on gifted and talented creative education. And I could just keep on going like this. I would say, would you want to introduce yourself very shortly yourself? And then let's dive in directly to our first questions.
Sure. Welcome, everyone. Good to meet you, although I can't see you. But, yeah, I've been in this field in a number of roles for going on 25 years now. And it really started just in the educational field, working at a middle school in an inner city situation where, you know, that's a steep learning curve as a teacher. But one of the biggest lessons there that I learned was developing a trust relationship with your with your students was the key. And that continues through today, especially working with twice exceptional and gifted students. Probably the key to everything. Regardless, I have three children that are twice exceptional, but they're in their 20s. Yes, we survived somehow. And one that is 30. I think she's, I'm 31. Now, so. And she's in Minnesota, and has a we have a brand new grandchild. We're going to go visit tomorrow, for the first time. So excited about that. But yeah, so I think that's probably enough, in a sense, within the state of Washington, and yes, been around the block in this field. That's for sure.
So I'm already curious, you mentioned that trusting relationships is Vicki all what is and a learning curve, of course, going into the teachers field. So I'm curious, as many people going into homeschooling, and yes, we already have a trusting relationship with our kids as they're our kids. But yet, I would say what are or what is one component that you found helps to build a trusting relationship, even if you're learning with your child, because I find that an extra challenge sometimes,
it's actually really much more of a challenge in the fact that it's too trusting. And what I mean by that is, for many gifted tui kids or multi kids, I don't like to use the word to eat because I find most of the remelted have multiple exceptionalities. But regardless, it's an easy turn. The fact is that home tends to be their safe place, in most cases. And when they're in their safe place, they're free to express emotion to almost be on hinged sometimes. So you get it all. And a lot of times when I work with twice exceptional kids and their families, they're able to handle the school day at school, and then they get home and then then they vent. So the issue is, I'm seeing with Homeschool parents is the fact that there's no place for them to really actually vent vent. You know what I mean? Because they're at home the whole time. And so this is where I would encourage, in that sense, finding other homeschoolers meeting up in groups, letting the kids experience other kids and other places and other environments. Even in this tough situation with COVID You have to get out you got to move about, you know, the greatest antidote for anxiety is movement. So getting out more around doing things doing whatever it is going meeting at the park, or you know, go into an an atrium or arboretum of some sort or just getting out there really allows for those kids to express themselves in different ways rather than sitting in front of a computer, or sitting in the homeschool room, you know, with you. You have that trust relationship already. But and this has another component when those kids get to be teenagers, because suddenly they become more internalized. And maybe that trust component isn't as solid as you probably thought it might be. So in that case, I always encouraging across the board mentoring kids having a mentor outside of the family that they can spill to if they need to. And that's a real difficult thing to find, especially, you know, again, this is where we need community, this is where we need larger homeschool groups that have maybe older kids, that can develop relationships and be able to talk, share their experiences, all that kind of stuff. So it's a multifaceted issue, in a sense, because the trust, like you said, has already been built from us. But it doesn't allow the kids a place to really vent out their frustrations and emotions when they do happen, or you get the brunt of it. And that adds a different component to being a teacher and a parent. And those two have to be kept separate.
So what we are finding with teaching kids online, is that because their parent is also their teacher, sometimes in addition to the, to the trust issues, that's that develop, like you were talking about the the executive functioning almost seems to get stuck in a way, um, our, our projects, our month long project, so we give you, you know, a marketing campaign that you have to establish, and we have steps along the way, but that executive functioning from planning from start to finish, because it's not a classroom chunked with, you know, 45 minutes, and that's what we have, and everybody get their planner out. We're really struggling to, to support our families. Any advice?
Yeah, I think I wouldn't be afraid to reach out for help. When it comes to that, because executive function has to be explicitly taught. It is something that is not inherent in our gifted to the kids, because of the fact that there's that a synchronous piece, you need to have the front, you know, the prefrontal cortex needs to be online. For executive functioning to happen. Too often, our our, for our kids limbic system is overwhelmed. And it leaves you know, it leaves the, the emotional part of the brain in the driver's seat. And when that is in the driver's seat, you cannot function from an executive functioning perspective. So you have to, you know, teach the kids how to regulate themselves. First of all, before you can even get into executive functioning. So they need to understand self regulation, you need to teach them social emotional skills deliberately. And that should be part of everyone's curriculum. And so when that is when that is, when the prefrontal cortex is on, that's the problem solving part of the brain, the rational part of the brain, that is where executive functioning lies. So they have to be regulated first. So Dan, when you get it to executive function, you got to teach them about prioritization, you got to teach them about organization, you got to teach them, and not only teach them, you got to practice it. So for my kids, I actually start with prioritization, because prioritization can cover a whole lot of executive functions. So I have kids right now that the first part of their day, I created a prioritization checklist for them. And they have to go in. And so they have a routine now. And sometimes for two week, kids routine is hard. But right now, the ones that I'm working with, they will they get up in the morning, they have their first half an hour, you know, they get to do their breakfast, or brush their teeth, whatever the routine is, then they have to sit down for just 10 minutes. And I have a checklist for them. And they have to prioritize their day 1234. This is a judgment call. Right? So they prioritize what needs what's most important that has to get done today? And then I usually three or four, sometimes five? And then I have them checklist, how long is this going to take me to do an estimate? Right? And then I have them set a time. So I'm going to do priority one at 10am. And I'm going to do for one hour. Right? When that hour is done, they have to stop that priority. And then they go through the checklist, right? So if they're not if they didn't estimate properly, and they need an hour and a half. Well, that priority goes back to tomorrow's checklist. Right? So it teaches them to organize their day, it teaches them to organize their time frame around their day. And it teaches them to estimate it teaches them all kinds of executive functioning skills. And it's actually kind of worked magic in a sense because the kids are now getting things done. Right now. Now there's I mean, there's a lot more issues in terms of executive function. It's there's inertia, there's getting started there's following directions there, you go down, down, follow through. But that's a starting point that I find is really helpful. And then for those that need more than that, you know, Seth Curlew has got some great resources on his website. Sarah Ward has great resources, especially for reluctant writers on their websites, and so go get some information, go get some help. Because executive functioning is one of the primary skills in terms of that social emotional development, that foundation that our kids are going to need to be successful wherever they are, whether it's homeschool, whether it's the workplace, whether it's college, that's the foundation, study habits, all these different things. And too often we let the soft skills go because was too interested in getting through the maths and sciences and this and that the other, and there's, oh, we got to get this done. And this done, and this done well, you know, that's called the tyranny of the curriculum. And, you know, it's more important to really prioritize what your kids need. And this is especially true when you're dealing with younger kids. And the issue is, when we don't do that, I'm dealing with kids that are 1819, to in their mid 20s, that don't have executive functioning skills, that we got to start from scratch. Right. And that makes it more difficult. So the earlier you start with executive functioning, make sure it is a priority in your homeschooling environment. And maybe if you'd have a homeschool group, you have one person designated as that person who can do a good job teaching, social emotional, executive functioning. And, and that, to me, is also part of that metacognitive process. It's one of the steps.
So I'm, I'm curious, kind of follow up with because I, I agree 100%, I love the sit down every, like 10 minutes every morning and prioritize, set a timer and go through that. I would advise that to everyone. I'm curious, at what point when do the parents stop being the planner for their kids? Like when? When do cuz that's a big question that many have asked us as a company, when How much do we involve ourselves in, you know, these, for example, executive functioning and planning looking at, they get their stuff down, versus wanting their child to be independent, and getting and doing their mistakes and everything. So that it seems like a balance that a lot of people are asking for, when do we stop being kind of the
pusher That's my philosophy is a gradual release. You know, it's the same as the guts keys, you know, zone of proximal development, you don't want them drowning, and you don't want them sitting there not doing nothing, right, you want them comfortably treading water. So from that perspective, you start off being the catalyst, you start off being the teacher, you practice with them, you give them these skills, and then you gradually release, as you see them getting more independent, I think it's just a natural process. And it's going to change based on the age of the child, when they're four or 567 years old, they're going to need more guidance than if they're starting at 13. Right. But they're starting at 13 or 14, you show them the process. And then you basically back off a little bit and watch them struggle through it. And by the way, failure is the best way to learn. And as you know, we want our kids to be making mistakes. So we monitor that. And until they get the practice, then you can back up, it's you know, our kids need to be independent in the way they learn by by high school, I would say our kids are 1415 year olds should be plugged in their own courses should be directing their own learning with guidance from the parents, that's really should be but that's again, it's a gradual release, because you can't do that with an eight year old.
So this is kind of challenging, right? Because we know that metacognitively our, our population really struggles and sort of their their ground base level is to think negatively about themselves. And then you want them to fail because failure is how they learn. But when they fail, they're taking such a harder hit. So how do you balance that?
Well, I always say fail and safe places. So what is the spark mechanism around them when you're challenging them? because you're right, it's a fine, fine line between, you know, taking that taking it really hard in terms of ruminating on that, Oh man, I'm so bad. I'm so bad, I'm so bad. Why can I do this, I'm supposed to be gifted bla bla bla bla bla bla, but I would first eliminate the word gifted in their vocabulary. And, you know, recognize it as high, intelligent, intellectual potential, in a sense, but we have to keep everything in consideration in terms of all the different factors there, right, you have vulnerable kids, but vulnerable kids still can fail in a safe environment. And then the key to failure is providing a scaffolded approach to get better. Right. Okay, we're gonna try this. We're gonna it may be difficult for you, and he may not get it right this time. But I want to see you try. Right, you're encouraging that approach that I can do an approach. But when they do, struggle, when they do mess it up, you provide a scaffolded approach. Okay, here's where we might have gone wrong. Here's an here's step 234, in terms of building that up again, right. So it's the combination of challenging them, maybe watching them flail a little bit, and then providing them a way out. And doing that in a safe place in a safe environment. And you start early. I had one of my sons was the extreme perfectionist. And how did I know that? When he was two years old, I put skates on him. We lived in Minnesota, the time he was out on the skate. And he started skating. Right? He was He's a natural athlete. He just started skating it too. Then he fell over. And I was in a yard away. And I could hear him screaming. I'm never going to be good enough.
Oh, to
write a call, I think I might have a perfectionist, am I? So bottom line is what I do. I didn't come out and rescue him. I came and brought the little chair. So you know, try it again with the chair. Oh, right. So the chair around the rink for a little while. Yeah. Yep. And then you got a little stronger and his feet. And then he said, Oh, I kind of I like this dad. Okay, let's try it again. And that's the same approach you want to do with those that vulnerability, right? Because you know, that if he had that negative experience over and over and over again, he'd give up. So providing them away out, can help them. And again, the younger, the younger,
you had gone and rescued him and picked him up. Would he have just in this case, like just said, Okay, I'm never skating again? Probably.
Yeah. Right. And we fell again, and then crawled off the rink and done. Right. So I gave him a little tool to help him I didn't even get him up. I said, here's the chair. He grabbed the chair got himself in the seat. I said, here's how you use it. Right, get the back of the chair and push it. Right. Yeah. And that is the key to this is you're providing the support mechanisms for them to be successful in what they're doing. So they experience failure, they experience the fact that I can fail, but I can learn from my failures and keep them on. But I'm providing them a support mechanism to get to have them continue to grow.
Wow, I love that. I love the story, as well. I think it brings it over the point really well. And I know for myself, it'll boost my creativity and moments to come in my future with my kid when she has those moments. So thank you for that. So diving deeper on the term metacognition, that you mentioned before, and I read from your, your website that how you develop the superpowers inside of our kids. So could you dive in what what do you mean by metacognition and how we apply that when we learn with our kids were our with our kids? Yeah, well, the
classic definition of metacognition is thinking about the way we think, but I have a broader definition. And that as you start to think about the way you think you actually think about how you fit in the world around you, how do you fit in your family, how do you fit in your community, your school, your environment, and, and, you know, and developing yourself from within, out, in essence, so it's really, really important for kids to develop a metacognition that's the foundation for executive function skills as the foundation for success, they need to understand who they are, why they are and how they fit in. And why that is important is because our kids are super sensitive. We, depending on who that child is, but a most gifted to the kids, actually, a lot of the two weekends I work with tend to be more highly gifted. And I'm not going to get into all the different scales. But the bottom line is, the more potential they have, in that sense, the more intense sensory integration, they experience, meaning what we have as we grow and learn our sensory inputs, right, we learned by using our senses, we actually and we actually start that even the wool that actually starts happening in the womb. What we find with with our kids is that those epigenetic signatures, those prints are happening at a much greater rate. They're happening quicker. And they're impacting our brain in a different way. Because so it's an intense epigenetic print situation. So that makes them much more sensitive to external stimuli. All right. So if they don't learn why that is, they don't learn that their brain functions a little differently, a little bit more atypical in nature. That's easy that name because those prints can easily overwhelm the limbic system, rather than a system of emotional control and appetite, and all that other stuff. They don't learn that then they don't know understand why they react almost sometimes intensely, or even violently, to different stimuli. Right. So they can be easily overwhelmed in a positive way, but they can also be overwhelmed in a negative way. Now, there's when we overwhelm kids in a negative way, with those we called triggers. Right? Those are the bad memories that they tend to ruminate on. And the one, the one thing we don't quite understand yet about the that brain, that high potential brain, that to the brain, is the fact that negative prints tend to lie deeper and last a lot longer than positive prints, they embed themselves in the brain in a different way. So we have a tendency to ruminate negatively about who we are about self. Right? Now you add on top of that, if you are feeling different, let's say you're you're very smart individual, but you have ADD and maybe dyslexia, right, you're coming up with all this potential against these other factors. And you're acting a different way, you're presenting in a different way. And yet, you have the intelligence to to understand that something's off. Right, so you feel off. Now often, what happens then, is those kids get into school in situations where they struggled socially, to make friendships because kids don't understand who they are. And even with adults, right, I'm excited to get into the school because I'm, as opposed to be a place of learning. And my teacher doesn't understand me and treats me differently. And in some cases,
I'm working on a new paper, right? Actually a couple of them, but one, and we're looking at incidences of school induced trauma in our kids, which is not something that's been written out or written about a lot, but this is what happens with our kids, when they don't fit in, they can experience they're vulnerable to what we call a little little tease many traumas, and a lot of them and that affects the way their brain works. So the bottom line is we teach them that metacognitive process of who they are, and I start with with them, the metaphysical child, what is your brain look like? How does it operate? What's going on in there? Right? accepting who I am, in terms of all that stuff that might be a little bit atypical? Why am I so intense? Why am I this? Why am I that? Well, now that it makes sense, I can start building a new positive profile of who I am. And what kind of superpowers that I have. You know, I consider add a superpower. I have ADD. And sometimes, yes, it's a pain in the butt. But sometimes it allows me to get things done. Nice when I can use that add, in a sense, my second book, actually, I wrote in nine weeks, because I was coming up at a deadline and suddenly had to tap into that add. I've got to get going on this thing. Right. And so I use that and tap that and produced a lot based on you know, I don't think I could have done that if I did. wasn't having multiple exceptionalities right. I do the same thing when I research. I can go into hyper mode and research and get things done very quickly. And then, you know, I won't mention the stagnant periods. But you know what I'm saying? And this is what we need to teach our kids is that yes, while you may be a little bit different, you may be a little bit atypical. In that sense, you have something that nobody else has, you have a unique brain a unique profile, and a unique ability to be able to do whatever you want. Now, I don't want to, I don't want to give them expectations that are unreachable, reasonable expectations in terms of their potential. And the earlier you can start doing that, you know, the better off, I work with four and five year olds, sometimes just to give them a basic explanation of what's going on. Why, why do I cry easily? Why do I get angry? Why do I feel really bad when someone steps on a bug? You know, why, why why those questions have to be answered. Because if they're not answered, they continue to ruminate inside. And so the metacognitive part of the process in terms of growing up, and and experiencing life uniquely, is extremely important for them to be successful later on. Right? Problem is we don't do it. We don't teach social emotion. We don't teach metacognition in schools. And so we see our kids, especially when they start hitting puberty, are already starting to have all kinds of existential issues and internal issues as well. Because they don't know who they are. They don't know how to handle it. And they see themselves as as outcasts.
Yeah, and we have listeners here who have the same just just found out I have ADHD and I have masked my whole life. I want to create a better life for my son who was diagnosed ADHD years ago. Very honestly, I feel you because I went is st journey being add myself. Guys, by the way, if you have any questions, you can comment any times your questions, and we'll come to them. As we get, get through these things. This is so when I, when I paraphrase in my own words, what I understand is that we should talk more with our kids, who they are, why they are and how they fit in and frame it in a way that I guess that clearly shows their strengths, yes, with the challenges that they will have, and also the opportunities that they have. So they understand that they're different, and that that is good. It's just different. I guess it's, as some said, we're past hundreds, I don't know, there's different philosophies of of that out there. But that's what we should do with our kids as they grow up.
Absolutely. And it's and it's a balanced approach. You know, I'm one of the biggest components have worked toward their strengths first. But we never ignore the weaknesses. Sometimes we have approaches in gifted education that are much just too much strength, base strength base strength base, and we ignore the weaknesses as well, the weaknesses aren't going to go away. Right, there are going to be there is some sensory integration issues when I was a kid, add, and I also had a bit of Asperger's, I was on the spectrum. And I'd spent I had to learn to accommodate these things. So that now I can, I can go and do a lecture for 1000 people and have no issues. Right? I can get up on there and no big deal. Right? So it's, it's it's a really guiding that child through that emphasizing the strengths, yes. But never ignore those weaknesses. They have to be addressed. Right, they have to learn that these are can be challenges, but they can also be gifts, depending on how you approach it. So it's real important to have that balance. I just see, when I travel and do stuff that, you know, in schools today, it's unfortunate, but our gifted programs tend to be those pull outs, right? It's once a week pull out, which is never enough. And yet it's going to be that fun experience, right? It's going to be boom, boom, boom, but they're not addressing the whole child. Right? You can't address the whole child in one hour, or a couple hours a week. Right? It's good. It's got to be kind of a more inclusive program where you can approach everything from a holistic perspective.
So that actually leads to a question I've been thinking about, about this new way of homeschool kids being educated by by online classes, right? So you sign up for a class and you have it for or two hours once a week? If that is your educational experience, how do you create that? That grit, that sense of community, that positive metacognition, all of the things that you've been talking about, if your education is kind of piecemeal,
that becomes really difficult. Because if you're, for instance, if you're teaching an online class for an hour, a week, or even two hours a week, you don't have time to build trust relationships, you don't have time to build the routines to tackle the social, emotional, or metacognitive issues that a child might have your direction is to approach this content as material, deliver it, right, you might have some discussions and things like that, but you're not going to have the in depth time to really go in. So that is where the parent or the homeschool group or whatever it is, has got to come in, and not just use online stuff, but they really really got to develop their own types of or borrow from different places, you know, social emotional curriculums, or this or that the other. You know, I think you have to balance that you can't just go with online courses, because those kids will never get that type of training. And I don't even know if you could if you actually taught a course on Social Media Development, if you get equity stolen, even accomplish that. Right? Because you're not developing a trust relationship with the trust relationship with a child in that manner.
This trust relationship be built online, I'm thinking about a mentor that might live, you know, a mentor in the area you're interested in, and you're working with them. You're allowed to be their research assistant, and can you build a trust relationship with them?
Yes, but it takes time. And that's the issue. Most of the time, these courses are what six week courses, maybe a week courses. I mean, I do that now with my clients with the kids I'm working with. But it takes time, sometimes six months, sometimes a year, before they really start to open up and really reveal the internal angst sometimes, you know, the reason the parents called me in the first place. But the other piece that I do is I work with the whole family, I don't work with just a child, the parents are involved. Right? So I'm working with the parents in conjunction with the child all the time. And that makes a bit more of a difference, because then you have more of a co a cooperative approach. Right? So the bottom line is, from a course perspective, I don't know if it's possible, if it's a long term relationship. Yes, absolutely. Right. And I actually think that kids, especially as you get a bit older, need that outside opinion that outside, approach that outside, hey, here's what's going on, I'm really not comfortable telling my parents right now about this. But hey, you've been through this before, right? An uncle maybe, or an aunt or, or egg, like you said, a mentor and in the community. And typically someone that might have gone through similar type experiences.
So we have a question from Facebook, and guys, I'm sorry, I cannot see your names in this program right now. So the question is, how can we address the weakness and at the same time, increase self confidence? So how do you address the weaknesses?
Well, thank you, it's a balanced approach, right? You want the kids to be self reliant and confident first, right. And that's where you emphasize the strength to build up that self confidence. The metacognitive part goes, things have to be established, the foundation has to be established. And then you go in, and the kids know what those weaknesses are. But you just take direct approaches to it. You know, if it's anxiety, you addressing xiety, if it's if it's dyslexia, then maybe you need to get some help from the outside and have someone come in and really work on that dyslexia piece, right? Most parents are not equipped in terms of really focusing in on those weaknesses and saying, here's the methodology. Here's what you do with ADD, here's what you do with dyslexia, or dysgraphia, or, you know, so in many cases, you have to look for some outside, help in those in those things, to really be specific as to what it is. But if you're, if you're, again, balanced in in all these things, your kids should be capable of understanding that they need help in that in those particular areas. But again, I don't have any formulaic thing where I can say, Okay, you need to do this, this, this and this, but I do think you need to get professional help in dealing with that to some of those weaknesses.
I would be curious to if we talk about strength based and for example giving compliments, right? What? What are you looking because there's different theories on when to give compliments and how to give compliments. So what would you if you say, I'm trying to understand if you say strength based What do you specifically mean? Or do you have an example or story that demonstrates this?
Well, I always like to. So first of all compliments, I'm not a big person on compliments. I'm more talking about validation. So understanding the childhoods and being there for the child. But in terms of those, those strengths, in essence, for instance, if if I'm a, if I'm a great reader, right, it's not just about the reading and the volume of reading, it's about the comprehension, it's about the interpretation, it's about going depth into that particular thing, reading response, and all those things. That could be a strength of mine. Right? I may be high in vocab and able to read, read, read read. But if I can't find, let's say, if I have dysgraphia. And I can't do reading response, because I can't hold the pencil properly, then what are the avenues I'm going to use to alleviate that piece? Is it going to be on typing is going to be voice voice to text? Is it? What is it? What's that? You know, so I have the I have the strength? I want to embrace that strength. So I'm in sixth grade, but I want to read Shakespeare, I want to read Hamlet, and I want to really dive into it. Okay, good. Let's provide that for you. But then let's provide you an avenue for expression. So that you can really take Hamlet and go deep with it. So adapting the gift to the weakness. Does that even make sense?
Yeah, so not complimenting and saying, Wow, you're such a great reader. I want to read Hamlet, Wow, you're so smart. But just as a Oh, you want to read Hamlet? That's challenging. Let me get it for you. And then
yeah, the problem was when we get too complimentary with their kids, and they keep hearing it they keep hearing, Oh, you're so smart, or you're so this are you. So that is you're setting unrealistic expectations for them down the road? Meaning while they always said I was so smart, and then suddenly, when they encounter a place where they're not doing well, well, I've heard on my entire life that I'm so smart, I'm so smart. So there's something wrong with me. You know, what's going on with me, and then it becomes a devastating blow. So we come alongside them and provide them the avenues for them to embrace their, their strengths. And yet again, balancing that was what support on the weaknesses.
So can I ask, even if you give compliments on the growth mindset, right, not complimenting the, yeah, you're so smart. But for example, yeah, you've trained so hard for this, or you didn't give up, you wouldn't give compliments on that as well, or that would go under validation.
I would say in that sense. Wow, you train really hard. Right? You worked really hard for this and see and see what you accomplished. Right? Not Oh, you're so smart. That's why you did this. It's a you worked really hard on this. You know, I really liked the way you did that. I really liked the way you tackled that homework piece without me asking to write. But not Hey, you're the smartest kid I ever know. So why can't you read this book in two minutes? I'm exaggerating, of course. But you know what I'm saying? Well, the problem is we have to make sure we balance our approach in terms of how we lift up our kids, how we support our kids. We can't be always complimenting, complimenting, because we're setting up false expectations for who they really are.
That makes sense. So, comment is, I've heard the phrase, you must be so proud of yourself. What about that?
Again, you're setting your kids up? Because why would if that can if that child doesn't feel that proud of themselves. For whatever it takes, it's just a normal thing. You know, well, this is what I can do. Again, that's dangerous. Right? And then that same way, you're putting it on them to come up. Oh, okay. I guess I must be proud of myself. Right? So you're setting up a false narrative. So what you really want to do is we want to complement their approach. Again, I really liked the way you did that, or I really liked that you studied for a couple hours, even though maybe you didn't have to do two hours of study. But I'm guessing that's probably going to be beneficial for you, when you tackle that exam, or whatever it is. So it's a again, it's a really fine line, right? And sometimes parents we just say things without thinking, right? I'm guilty of it. You know, I sometimes look back At our parenting Oh, wow. I'm surprised our kids made it. Because there were times when our kids especially when they're teens, and I was pulling them out of schools and Amanda was pulled out at seventh grade Sean pulled out in ninth grade. Ninth grade when he started the only one to accede to that got through Nikki got through and Alex barely got through, cuz he had extreme anxiety. But when you're in the midst of it, sometimes it just looks like it's your you're desperate. Right? You're desperate for answers, you're desperate for hope. And I'll tell you folks, there's hope. You know, we we deliberately color accompany gifted and thriving for a reason. Because there's always hope for kids to get through, and they will thrive if you give them the right resources. And the right and the right support.
Yeah, so about those resources. Um, we are so lucky to talk with with families all around the world. And we hear two things all the time. One is I, I, I never plan to homeschool, I'm an unintentional homeschool parent, I don't want to be in the situation. And to we hear there's no resource for me. You know, there are families in other countries, and in parts of the United States that don't live in cities, where a pod just isn't reasonable. But neither is sending their kid to school for a trauma reason. Some schools don't provide gifted programs, whatever it is, what can a parent do to stop their own rumination and spinning of I don't know what I'm doing. I don't want to be here. I'm not good at this in order to focus on what their kid needs.
But the nice thing about homeschooling is it doesn't have to be a traditional approach. Right? Again, that depends on your state, your country, wherever you are. But the bottom line is, you got a lot of freedom. So the first thing I would say, is look at education from a thematic perspective. Think about, you know, some of the things that the kids you can go through the standards and this and that the other but if you really look at a thematic approach, you can start bringing in all kinds of resources in based on, I'll just give you an example. When we started our navigator program back in 2008, which is a magnet school for for highly gifted two kids. Our first year theme was oceanography. And we could take math, science, reading, writing all that stuff and weave it in to oceanography which made it much more easier in terms of and much more interesting for the kids. And then they had an overall project where they had to redevelop a any area of coastline in the world and give it a 50 year window where it's going to be eco friendly. Right. So they had to look at it from geology, they look from social studies, they look at from every perspective, and then read about that piece. So you can do those kinds of things, and still feel confident that they're learning. You know, there's math involved in that there's all kinds of stuff involved, depends on where they are. Now, the other piece is, there are other resources out there on the net, gifted homeschool forum would be somewhere that I might join, get on the forum, people provide resources to send the other look for those kinds of outside support mechanisms, right? And maybe even try to create a pod online. And maybe that's a service that, you know, that folks like you guys can provide as Hey, there, are you isolated, sign up for this list here? And is anyone in your area willing to do an online cohort? Right? Because I, I can see that the panic in the eye of the parent that suddenly realizes I got to do this. And there's really no option. And guess what? I'm isolated here. Right? That is a panic approach. In fact, our first year with when shot in a manner where we didn't do anything, right.
As a teacher and a principal, you were just like, Nope, we got to stop.
Well, we needed recovery period. Number one, and I didn't have the time, because I was running the school when this happened. And my wife Julie was there and she was panicking because she didn't know what to do. She was a business. She was a business person. Right? I said, Let's just let them be for a while. Let them find themselves again, because there had been some traumatic experiences, especially for Amanda at the seventh grade level. And then gradually, we kind of got them back into it and they self studied. Now they were in ninth grade in seventh grade. They were capable. So we provided them lots of different types of books. And we kind of help guide them through we tried the online school program From the state that didn't work so well. And in the end, both Amanda and Shawn got their GDS and are in college now without any issues. Right? So sometimes you also got to release the pressure of have suddenly, oh, I got to do all this stuff. Well, maybe way to it. Wait a bit practice some folks have been doing it for a long time. My friend Casey Peters does a homeschool support thing out in LA, I think it's online, find these little supports here and there and then start to build your program. Right? It doesn't have to be full, comprehensive. Let's start and go. Right. Take your time and do it right.
It's challenging, though, right? Because this is the way they were. I mean, yeah, I went to private school, there was lots of pressure. I sucked it up when people made fun of me. I don't know what your problem is. And why are you speaking with vocabulary like that? They're just gonna make fun of you. Like, yeah, yeah,
I can imagine being a parent, patient homeschooling you get full add. And you're like, Where do I even start?
Ah, I can't imagine running a school with ADHD either.
Well, yeah, that had its moments. But the bottom line is, there's resources out there, if you search, right, they are out there and their support mechanisms out there if you search, so don't panic. Just start gathering your resources, contact other people, whether they're in your country or all over the world doesn't matter. All right, there's a timezone thing that you're going to run into, obviously, but contact those resources, and really start to embrace them, in a sense, learn from them, you know, find some, you know, talk to the kids. I was sat down with the kids say, What do you want to do? Well, my daughter is an artist. She goes, Well, let's let's start in art school. So her homeschool title was Amanda's school for art. Right? So he did a lot of her art stuff. And then through the her art, we learned some other things. Right? And actually, when he got to high school, all I did was purchase the GED book and said here, what what do they need? What are they asking for? Right? Yeah, you do your art and stuff. And then let's weave this in. And so she gradually learned and she passed them all fairly easily. And next thing, you know, you know, now she's applied and is going to go to school for animation and in coding. Right. So, yeah, it's, it can be done. It's daunting, but it can be done. Right?
I would we have seven minutes left. And yeah, I know. I mean, I think I could talk. This could go on for like, 24 hours, I think. So one of the questions that that's burning me is to ask you, what is one of the latest research that you find really interesting around a typical brains?
The research keeps changing. But the most important thing to really understand is the impact on sensory integration, in terms of how that brain reacts and how that brain grows, and, you know, the farther we are, in terms of being outliers, the more epigenetic impact you're going to have your brain is going to have. So how do you cope with that? I mean, we know with with G, chewy brains now that there we have more white matter, the connective tissue in the brain, it's denser, the sensory input, or the arousal meter in the brain is, is denser, it's wider, it's thicker, it's and, you know, just bring in so much more information. We know that there's there are greater volumes of gray matter. We know that the, the amygdala, which is part of the fear factor in the brain, the limbic system, into the kids can be 85%, larger, right? So these are things that really are impactful. So you get are starting to see if you have a larger amygdala, you have the capacity for much more emotional reactions and a someone that may not have that. Right, the other capacity for intense sensory information that may overload you easier, right and cause triggers, you know, and I use a horrible example to demonstrate this but you have positive, neutral and negative prints that are coming in to constantly right So if you are current and this goes back to if you're constantly experiencing negative prints, right, that has a direct correlation to poor mental health. So you need positive nurturing, especially the first five years of life is essential from from at least one adult. But the bottom line is you're going to have negative prints, you're going to have negative triggers. And those triggers just last longer. So I recently have a work with a family and, and the father who's in his 60s, never understood why he had a phobia for dads until we trace back to print that he was bitten by a dog at four years old. And it was kind of a nasty thing that embedded itself so deeply, now that they recognized it, you know, now they have couple dogs running around the house, and acid, so it's really, really important to understand about mentally, where kids are at, and why they're vulnerable. Right? Why they can be emotional. And sometimes we don't provide them the language of emotion. They react in other ways. So there's a whole, there's a, I mean, I'm, I'm scratching the surface on this stuff. If folks are interested, Dr. Massa kreski. And I did a full webinar on this on the tui brain a couple years back, it's on the website somewhere. But the bottom line is that is the basis for understanding your kids is to understand the neural impact, and why that makes their kids more vulnerable. So I'm talking in circles a little bit here. But that would be the place I would start when you're talking about developing metacognition is to teach the kids about themselves. teach the kids about who they are. Right? And that starts with the brain
is anxiety disorder, which is a really common thing in our population related to the larger amygdala, the larger gray matter?
Absolutely. And because because the the limbic systems attach the vagal nerve, which attaches, you know, that whole system attaches through the central nervous system, when we're vulnerable to having anxiety in a sense, because we're very susceptible to that. What ends up happening is it embeds itself in the central nervous system at a molecular level. So when we see kids struggling with anxiety, especially gifted to the kids, it seems like they're always on that edge, right? They're always on that edge. And that's because it's right there. It's in the central nervous system. So any, anytime they feel threatened, right, you get into that fight, please. Fight, please frame. And tell, please. And so that part of the brain, the emotional limbic system takes over the driver's seat, and kicks out the prefrontal cortex. So suddenly, when you're living with anxiety, you are constantly scanning for threats, perceived or even unperceived. Right? So you're living in anxiety because the limbic system is taken over the driver's seat. Right, it's embedded itself. So unless that anxiety has been, has been, you know, treated in a sense, and looked after and released, you know, through different techniques. Dr. Sharon Selena and I did a six week workshop on anxiety last fall for pre teens and young adults. And we're going to do another one for adults coming to spring at some point. But unless you know how to treat the anxiety, that says that we'll continue to spiral and dig and dig and dig. Right, and then you'll, you'll be living your life, you know, on the edge. And that's what happened with our son. You know, everything became, you know, he was struggling with anxiety so deeply that he couldn't function, you know, any get to school and everything would be a defense, right? Because he felt threats from from all over. Every single year, he ended up being homebound because he couldn't, just couldn't get and get to school. Right? It was that difficult. And so that's what we see in our kids. And so when we start seeing signs of anxiety, that's when we need to get help created quickly, because you don't want that to grow and fester. And our kids are naturally more vulnerable to anxiety based on what their what their brain is telling them to do. So the more we expose that to them in terms of hey, anxiety is tricking it's lying, it's a wire. It is telling your brain in a way that it should. Right. And I know folks out there have my good friend Dr. Dan Peters, you know, anxiety book out there, which is I would recommend especially for younger kids to go through cuz he really explains in depth what that anxiety that worry monster really is. So for in terms of anxiety, I would I would check out that resource. But it you know, it continues I mean, we have anxiety as adults. Sure. And here's the other thing, you know, giftedness, twice exceptional, all that stuff that's a that's a lifetime. It's not just designated for 12 years in school. Right? It is a lifetime. So you have to learn accommodations and coping mechanisms, poke the coping mechanisms over a lifespan. And that is really, really important. Because we don't address the gifted young adult graduating, the gifted to we parent, even the elderly, we don't do a very good job of doing that. And that's, that's another topic for a different day, I guess.
We could spend another interview, or another six week course probably more over. Okay, so I'm going to wrap this up. Because we value your time so much. So guys, if you want more, you can go to gifted and scribing comm I'll put it in the comments down below and everywhere else, as well. So check out his website, he has online courses, and again, his books his article, I don't have to tell you more go and research as we always do. And thank you again, so much for being here. If you have any more like if you're watching the replay and you want any more questions, then comment down below in the replay. And we'll get to those as well. And with that, I would say have the
right folks you can contact me at my email. What is it support at gifted in thriving calm? And just I don't know if I'm allowed to say something about a upcoming thing. Go for near we are starting a new seven week course called the fit, where I'll be talking about what is starting off with what is to be what is gifted? What is neurodiversity, and going into the brain and then going into challenges in school and parenting. And it's going to be a seven week course where we do a live and then discussion right afterwards. So if anyone's interested in that, it'll be up probably next weekend or just coming weekend. My wife does all the behind the scenes stuff. I don't do any of the heavy work I just
do the writing and you know, meet with families. So at any rate, so that's coming up and just thank you guys for having me on. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Lovely here.